VAR needed!

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Re: VAR needed!

Postby worruz » Sun Jul 26, 2020 5:11 pm

So Villa stay up by one point.

The point they got when they lost 0-1 at home v Sheffield Utd when the ball went about a yard over the line.

OK, not VAR but goal line technology system.
Still for me VAR has been a bit of a joke this season like I suspected it would.

For those VAR acolytes (Guvnor, Mr Gloor) any comments?

I always said you'd still have the same crap refs making the same crap decisions but from a Booth as opposed to on the field.
The problem with VAR is that it almost suggests that prior to its implementation every game was a seething mass of injustice, which really wasn't the case.

You got the odd travesty but generally most games passed off pretty fine in spite of the hopeless officials.
This experiment hasn't worked for me. Kills the spectacle.

It's here to stay but I'm still not happy with it.
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Re: VAR needed!

Postby The Guvnor » Mon Jul 27, 2020 6:39 am

worruz wrote:For those VAR acolytes (Guvnor, Mr Gloor) any comments?


Technology that is used to improve decision making has to be a good thing. There may well be issues with interpretation and some laws of the game that need tinkering with but its here to stay and lets not forget its a tool thats in its infancy so theres no doubt the product will get much better.

The vast majority of decisions I've seen have been correct although as I've said some of them are a bit harsh but thats down to the laws rather than the accuracy of the decision.

I remember reading somewhere that when officials decisions were reviewed prior to VAR the outcome was quite surprisingly high, somewhere in the high 90's so that would suggest to me that they were actually doing a more than decent job. However the Premier League being what it is demands 100% accuracy and without technology a human being simply cannot deliver that.

So despite the officials doing a very good job they were getting hammered most weeks by all and sundry especially at the top level where of course the stakes are high, but its that self interest which is now causing fans to evaluate whether its all worth it.

Does it make decision making better ? Yes it does.

Does it improve the game as a spectacle ? Right now, definitely not but that will improve as years go by and eventually it will just become a natural part of the game.

I think its possible old school fans of Premier League clubs could become disenchanted with the game but the next generation will be brought up with it so won't know any different.

Would I want it at Wealdstone ? Yes, but only with the wrinkles ironed out.
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Re: VAR needed!

Postby worruz » Mon Jul 27, 2020 10:41 am

The Guvnor wrote:However the Premier League being what it is demands 100% accuracy


Why? The players don't deliver that

And you'll never get that with or without technology anyway.

Looking at a decision over 25 times only to still get it wrong is not my idea of a decent sporting spectacle.
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Re: VAR needed!

Postby The Guvnor » Wed Jul 29, 2020 7:10 am

worruz wrote:Why? The players don't deliver that


No, they don't.

But you only have to listen to managers weeping and wailing every Saturday night about the great injustices that have befallen their team to understand there is no margin for error when it comes to decision making. In that environment the officials need help because the scrutiny their decisions are under is impossible to live up to.

And having been in Bloemfontein in 2010 when Lampards goal wasn't given despite being at least a yard over the line, any doubts I may have had about the use of technology in football were removed once and for all after that.

And don't get me started about Maradona in 1986. The more I see that goal the more I think the ref was either bent or had a brain seizure at that precise moment, it was so bloody clear to the eye.

Perfection in sport as in life doesn't exist but if you have tools that can help get you close it would foolish not to use them.
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Re: VAR needed!

Postby worruz » Wed Jul 29, 2020 5:09 pm

The Guvnor wrote:
worruz wrote:Why? The players don't deliver that


No, they don't.

But you only have to listen to managers weeping and wailing every Saturday night about the great injustices that have befallen their team to understand there is no margin for error when it comes to decision making. In that environment the officials need help because the scrutiny their decisions are under is impossible to live up to.

And having been in Bloemfontein in 2010 when Lampards goal wasn't given despite being at least a yard over the line, any doubts I may have had about the use of technology in football were removed once and for all after that.

And don't get me started about Maradona in 1986. The more I see that goal the more I think the ref was either bent or had a brain seizure at that precise moment, it was so bloody clear to the eye.

Perfection in sport as in life doesn't exist but if you have tools that can help get you close it would foolish not to use them.


I was in Bloemfontein as well and I argued on here at the time that I would have no problem with goal line technology if I believed they'd stop at just that. I didn't think they would and I was proven correct. We're not going to agree on this but to me VAR kills the spectacle. Seeing an offside decision being scrutinised to the nth degree to give someone off by half an inch when it may not have been anyway depending on the angle of the line drawn. This after a three minute stoppage. Its appalling to me and not football at all.

As for Maradona's goal the linesman admitted later that he saw the handball but as the ref didn't ask him for his opinion and the ref said he'd make all on field calls he chose to do nothing.

Utterly ridiculous.

An even worse decision and more blatant hand ball that is largely forgotten was during the 1998 World Cup in first half extra time between England and Argentina. An Argentinian defender literally punched the ball off Shearer's head in the area. It was plain for everyone in the ground to see but for some bizarre reason they chose not to give it.

I just want competent officials. We don't need VAR for that. The refs operating VAR are the same crap ones on the field.
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Re: VAR needed!

Postby attic » Wed Jul 29, 2020 7:28 pm

The Guvnor wrote:
worruz wrote:Why? The players don't deliver that


No, they don't.

But you only have to listen to managers weeping and wailing every Saturday night about the great injustices that have befallen their team to understand there is no margin for error when it comes to decision making. In that environment the officials need help because the scrutiny their decisions are under is impossible to live up to.

And having been in Bloemfontein in 2010 when Lampards goal wasn't given despite being at least a yard over the line, any doubts I may have had about the use of technology in football were removed once and for all after that.

And don't get me started about Maradona in 1986. The more I see that goal the more I think the ref was either bent or had a brain seizure at that precise moment, it was so bloody clear to the eye.

Perfection in sport as in life doesn't exist but if you have tools that can help get you close it would foolish not to use them.


To be honest Guvnor, I'm surprised you didn't flee the stadium in disgust when you saw Matthew Upson's name on the teamsheet!

I'd still say Shilts should have at least put Maradona on a stretcher when he came out to clear the ball away. Something akin to Schumacher on the French bloke would have been the order of the day. I was always a big Shilton fan but its fair to say his legs were starting to creak during that period.
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Re: VAR needed!

Postby The Guvnor » Thu Jul 30, 2020 6:36 am

attic wrote:Matthew Upson's name on the teamsheet!


And people wonder why England haven't won anything since 1966.

We are getting better but we still have players who are just a car crash waiting to happen.

Pickford, Stones, or any of our centre halves for starters.
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Re: VAR needed!

Postby abuzza » Thu Jul 30, 2020 8:47 am

One of the things which makes football enjoyable as opposed to those daft American 'sports' or, for that matter, cricket, is the constant flow of the game. Until / unless VAR can be used without wrecking that I'd rather do without. Why the obsession with total accuracy anyway (bearing in mind VAR has certainly not achieved that)? I actually think the standard of refereeing is pretty good, from Prem down to our level. Bearing in mind the speed and complexity of the modern game it's amazing how often they get it RIGHT. And the odd dodgy decision has to be part of the game, you win some, you lose some. Chesterfield, who we will be playing next season, would have been in the FA Cup Final in 1997 but for a short-sighted lino. And their fans probably get more mileage out of that than if they'd got to the final and been thumped by Chelsea!
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Re: VAR needed!

Postby worruz » Thu Jul 30, 2020 9:10 am

abuzza wrote:One of the things which makes football enjoyable as opposed to those daft American 'sports' or, for that matter, cricket, is the constant flow of the game. Until / unless VAR can be used without wrecking that I'd rather do without. Why the obsession with total accuracy anyway (bearing in mind VAR has certainly not achieved that)? I actually think the standard of refereeing is pretty good, from Prem down to our level. Bearing in mind the speed and complexity of the modern game it's amazing how often they get it RIGHT. And the odd dodgy decision has to be part of the game, you win some, you lose some. Chesterfield, who we will be playing next season, would have been in the FA Cup Final in 1997 but for a short-sighted lino. And their fans probably get more mileage out of that than if they'd got to the final and been thumped by Chelsea!


With regards to Chesterfield, the linesman signalled a goal but was overruled by the 'referee'.

David Elleray

Nuff said.
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Re: VAR needed!

Postby abuzza » Thu Jul 30, 2020 10:09 am

Also, the obvious next step after interminable stops for VAR is the ice hockey style countdown where the clock stops whenever the ball is out of play. Not sure what the average time of a half is excluding stoppages, but I guess 35-40 minutes? Puts a stop to time wasting but you'll end up with a three hour match. Who wants that?
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