Fascinating Facts (...or tedious trivia!)

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Re: Fascinating Facts (...or tedious trivia!)

Postby LapelsToby » Sat Aug 15, 2020 4:51 pm

attachment]
s.k.khanna wrote:
The Guvnor wrote:
s.k.khanna wrote:The late Bruce Forsyth was also present, I think."


Indeed he was, I think he actually kicked the game off.


I'm going with Mick Fishman on this one as I now recall actually seeing a colour photograph shown to me by Toby Jackson of Anthea Redfern in a Wealdstone shirt kicking the ball for the kick-off. Think she wore high heels. Just didn't twig it was the same game. However I do believe that Bruce Forsyth was also there at the kick-off. (Probably holding Anthea's hand for balance!!!)


Funny how the facts get slightly distorted over time, but here's a few photos to evoke a memory or two from that testimonial game with Wolves.
Attachments
Brucie2.jpg
Brucie gets his marching orders before the match even starts! Behind him you can see the High Mead programme shop hut before its move to the revamped Club Shop next to Julie's tea bar.
(171.56 KiB) Not downloaded yet
Anthea2.JPG
Centre of attention Anthea Redfern ready to "kick" off with her hockey stick, much admired by Chris Kinnear, John Henderson and George Duck (back to camera). Not in colour and no high heels sadly!
(221.76 KiB) Not downloaded yet
Jimmy Greaves2.jpg
Jimmy Greaves joins the action for the Stones with Bobby Moss just behind him. Duck and Greaves - the dream team!!
(78.11 KiB) Not downloaded yet
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Re: Fascinating Facts (...or tedious trivia!)

Postby s.k.khanna » Sat Aug 15, 2020 5:49 pm

LapelsToby wrote: Funny how the facts get slightly distorted over time, but here's a few photos to evoke a memory or two from that testimonial game with Wolves.

Yup it appears that over time my brain had merged the photos you showed me and then coloured them in at the same time.
That said, nowadays you can of course colourise old black & white photographs to very good effect as Roger has done with some vintage Wealdstone photos. If you're going to get that done can you get them to photoshop some high heels on Anthea and I then I wouldn't be too far from the truth!
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Re: Fascinating Facts (...or tedious trivia!)

Postby Roge S » Sun Aug 16, 2020 9:53 am

s.k.khanna wrote:I used Roger's book as a reference point but it's also on our website [ https://www.wfchistory.com/potted-history/] and more importantly [ :D ] on our Wikipedia site
[ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wealdstone_F.C. ] as the year we were formed.


Just to clarify:

The formation date of 1899 is the one on the FA Share - all FA full members hold one share. Not sure when this was issued, but safe to assume sometime around WW1 as the club ventured into Senior football for the first time in 1913. No doubt with good intentions, it was probably dated to the first season as Wealdstone FC, remembering that even in 14 years this was a much changed club....

Regards a true formation, there are (as previous programme articles have indicated) five or six dates each with varying strength of claims... (1899 is one date that definitely is NOT the date of foundation). The claims would be:

1887. - Formation of The Oaks and Cogswell & Harrison, who were to merge in 1890. ( there are links back as far as 1883 but these are truthfully links by association with the merged Wealdstone and Harrow Athletic in 1894 - on the red side).

1895. - Wealdstone Athletic was formed, taking much of the original Wealdstone FC club from 1893 and de-merging from Harrow Athletic. It was short lived as WA for one season....

1896. - ....and as a result, Wealdstone Juniors formed from mainly officials and players of the remnant WA. Wealdstone Rovers also formed in this season.

1898. - over two years, bot Rovers and another side, Wealdstone Wanderers had merged into Wealdstone Juniors, who for the start of 1898-9 joined the inaugural season of the Willesden and District League, changing their name to Wealdstone Albion, then the following year after merging with the remainder of Wealdstone Wanderers, they dropped Albion from the name.

(One later change was when Wealdstone Church Athletic took over the defunct playing sides fixtures 1905-1908. During this time however the Wealdstone club continued though did not play games directly. Most players and officials were involved with WCA. In 1908-9, the officials and better players returned to playing as Wealdstone FC and WCA returned to local district football)

All of this is detailed with supporting documents from press cuttings etc, and the club has on a couple of occasions looked at changing the official date with the FA but it’s never been followed up after initial enquiry....

If I had to pick a true date of formation of the modern club, I’d say 1896, Wealdstone Juniors being the first incarnation. (No relation to Wealdstone Juniors circa 1900 or 1912 eras....)
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Re: Fascinating Facts (...or tedious trivia!)

Postby Stoney Ground » Sun Aug 16, 2020 10:34 am

Roge S wrote:
s.k.khanna wrote:I used Roger's book as a reference point but it's also on our website [ https://www.wfchistory.com/potted-history/] and more importantly [ :D ] on our Wikipedia site
[ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wealdstone_F.C. ] as the year we were formed.


Just to clarify:

The formation date of 1899 is the one on the FA Share - all FA full members hold one share. Not sure when this was issued, but safe to assume sometime around WW1 as the club ventured into Senior football for the first time in 1913. No doubt with good intentions, it was probably dated to the first season as Wealdstone FC, remembering that even in 14 years this was a much changed club....

Regards a true formation, there are (as previous programme articles have indicated) five or six dates each with varying strength of claims... (1899 is one date that definitely is NOT the date of foundation). The claims would be:

1887. - Formation of The Oaks and Cogswell & Harrison, who were to merge in 1890. ( there are links back as far as 1883 but these are truthfully links by association with the merged Wealdstone and Harrow Athletic in 1894 - on the red side).

1895. - Wealdstone Athletic was formed, taking much of the original Wealdstone FC club from 1893 and de-merging from Harrow Athletic. It was short lived as WA for one season....

1896. - ....and as a result, Wealdstone Juniors formed from mainly officials and players of the remnant WA. Wealdstone Rovers also formed in this season.

1898. - over two years, bot Rovers and another side, Wealdstone Wanderers had merged into Wealdstone Juniors, who for the start of 1898-9 joined the inaugural season of the Willesden and District League, changing their name to Wealdstone Albion, then the following year after merging with the remainder of Wealdstone Wanderers, they dropped Albion from the name.

(One later change was when Wealdstone Church Athletic took over the defunct playing sides fixtures 1905-1908. During this time however the Wealdstone club continued though did not play games directly. Most players and officials were involved with WCA. In 1908-9, the officials and better players returned to playing as Wealdstone FC and WCA returned to local district football)

All of this is detailed with supporting documents from press cuttings etc, and the club has on a couple of occasions looked at changing the official date with the FA but it’s never been followed up after initial enquiry....

If I had to pick a true date of formation of the modern club, I’d say 1896, Wealdstone Juniors being the first incarnation. (No relation to Wealdstone Juniors circa 1900 or 1912 eras....)


What happened to Wealdstone and North Kings Ecclesiastical Reserves.
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Re: Fascinating Facts (...or tedious trivia!)

Postby s.k.khanna » Sun Aug 16, 2020 1:50 pm

Roge S wrote:
s.k.khanna wrote:I used Roger's book as a reference point but it's also on our website [ https://www.wfchistory.com/potted-history/] and more importantly [ :D ] on our Wikipedia site
[ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wealdstone_F.C. ] as the year we were formed.


Just to clarify:

The formation date of 1899 is the one on the FA Share - all FA full members hold one share. Not sure when this was issued, but safe to assume sometime around WW1 as the club ventured into Senior football for the first time in 1913. No doubt with good intentions, it was probably dated to the first season as Wealdstone FC, remembering that even in 14 years this was a much changed club....

Regards a true formation, there are (as previous programme articles have indicated) five or six dates each with varying strength of claims... (1899 is one date that definitely is NOT the date of foundation). The claims would be:

1887. - Formation of The Oaks and Cogswell & Harrison, who were to merge in 1890. ( there are links back as far as 1883 but these are truthfully links by association with the merged Wealdstone and Harrow Athletic in 1894 - on the red side).

1895. - Wealdstone Athletic was formed, taking much of the original Wealdstone FC club from 1893 and de-merging from Harrow Athletic. It was short lived as WA for one season....

1896. - ....and as a result, Wealdstone Juniors formed from mainly officials and players of the remnant WA. Wealdstone Rovers also formed in this season.

1898. - over two years, bot Rovers and another side, Wealdstone Wanderers had merged into Wealdstone Juniors, who for the start of 1898-9 joined the inaugural season of the Willesden and District League, changing their name to Wealdstone Albion, then the following year after merging with the remainder of Wealdstone Wanderers, they dropped Albion from the name.

(One later change was when Wealdstone Church Athletic took over the defunct playing sides fixtures 1905-1908. During this time however the Wealdstone club continued though did not play games directly. Most players and officials were involved with WCA. In 1908-9, the officials and better players returned to playing as Wealdstone FC and WCA returned to local district football)

All of this is detailed with supporting documents from press cuttings etc, and the club has on a couple of occasions looked at changing the official date with the FA but it’s never been followed up after initial enquiry....

If I had to pick a true date of formation of the modern club, I’d say 1896, Wealdstone Juniors being the first incarnation. (No relation to Wealdstone Juniors circa 1900 or 1912 eras....)


I appreciate a lot of the Club’s background history which you have researched for your book is indepth and correct and I certainly wouldn’t dispute it. However, without giving an exact definition of when we were founded and why, the information you have provided leaves it open to interpretation. Consequently I can only read what you have written and interpret it accordingly.

When I worked at the Land Registry, and we had to register ownership of land, whether they were people, companies, charities, sporting bodies or whatever, each party had to be given a distinct identity to determine whether they were legally capable of holding land as they were ultimately responsible for it. This included determining their origins (usually provided by a solicitor) as all the information we put on an ownership register of title had to be correct as it has to stand in a Court of Law.

In the eyes of the law a simple “change of name” of a Company denotes they are the still the same body. A “takeover” is also much the same as the original body still exists and they've just swallowed up another body.
However, a “merger” is defined as “one in which two separate entities merge to become an entirely new entity” and although you don't mention the word "amalgamation" the implication is listed in your directory and means pretty much the same thing

This is why anywhere where you have stated a “merger” (or implicated an amalgamation) has taken place that to me that is where a new club has been created.
Each to their own I suppose...
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Re: Fascinating Facts (...or tedious trivia!)

Postby s.k.khanna » Tue Aug 18, 2020 11:09 pm

With the Premier League & EFL fixtures due for release on Friday 21 August 2020 for those who missed it NATIONAL LEAGUE Fixtures are provisionally set for release on Tuesday 8 September 2020 but this is yet to be confirmed!

• The scheduled start date of the 2020/21 Season is Saturday 3 October 2020.
• 46 league fixtures will be scheduled in the National Division, and either 42 or 40 league fixtures will be scheduled in the North and South Divisions.
• The North and South Divisions will commence the season with The FA Cup Second Qualifying Round on Saturday 3 October.
• The final league match of the normal season is scheduled for Saturday 29 May 2021.
• The end of season Play-Offs are scheduled to take place in June 2021.

All subject to FA Approval of course and will probably change tomorrow when they also make a statement about crowds being allowed in at Step 3 & below (possibly).
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Re: Fascinating Facts (...or tedious trivia!)

Postby worruz » Wed Aug 19, 2020 6:46 am

s.k.khanna wrote:The final league match of the normal season is scheduled for Saturday 29 May 2021.
• The end of season Play-Offs are scheduled to take place in June 2021.


Sensible.

Unprecedented times called for special measures.

The end of April season end with play offs in May would have been crazy.
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Re: Fascinating Facts (...or tedious trivia!)

Postby s.k.khanna » Tue Sep 01, 2020 10:30 am

Interesting little musical montage of the grounds in our league has recently appeared on YouTube updated to include us.
Enjoy...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3qWGnkowYKE

Utilising the information therein I've compiled a list of all the grounds and their respective ground capacities. In view of the extreme difference in capacity numbers between the various teams, it would be bizarre to think that given the current "one glove fits all" scenario we have to comply with regarding restricted ground limits that this scenario will continue into the National League season...but then again who knows!

Ground Capacities (in ascending order)
1. WEALDSTONE - Grosvenor Vale 3,607
2. MAIDENHEAD UNITED - York Road 4,000
3. BOREHAM WOOD - Meadow Park 4,502
4. SUTTON UNITED - Gander Green Lane 5,013
5. EASTLEIGH - Ten Acres 5,250
6. BROMLEY - Hayes Lane 5,300
7. SOLIHULL MOORS - Damson Park 5,500
8. DOVER ATHLETIC - Crabble Athletic Ground 5,745
9. WOKING - Kingfield Stadium 6,036
10.DAGENHAM & REDBRIDGE - Victoria Road 6,078
11. MACCLESFIELD TOWN - Moss Rose 6,355
12. BARNET - The Hive Stadium 6,418
13. TORQUAY UNITED - Plainmoor 6,500
14. WEYMOUTH - Bob Lucas Stadium 6,600
15. ALDERSHOT TOWN - Recreation Ground 7,200
16. ALTRINCHAM - Moss Lane 7,700
17. HARTLEPOOL UNITED - Victoria Park 7,856
18. KINGS LYNN TOWN - The Walks 8,200
19. YEOVIL TOWN - Huish Park 9,566
20. FC HALIFAX TOWN - The Shay 10,400
21. CHESTERFIELD - Proact Stadium 10,504
22. WREXHAM - Racecourse Ground 10,771
23. STOCKPORT COUNTY - Edgeley Park 10,852
24. NOTTS COUNTY - Meadow Lane 19,588
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Re: Fascinating Facts (...or tedious trivia!)

Postby worruz » Tue Sep 01, 2020 1:06 pm

s.k.khanna wrote:Interesting little musical montage of the grounds in our league has recently appeared on YouTube updated to include us.
Enjoy...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3qWGnkowYKE

Utilising the information therein I've compiled a list of all the grounds and their respective ground capacities. In view of the extreme difference in capacity numbers between the various teams, it would be bizarre to think that given the current "one glove fits all" scenario we have to comply with regarding restricted ground limits that this scenario will continue into the National League season...but then again who knows!

Ground Capacities (in ascending order)
1. WEALDSTONE - Grosvenor Vale 3,607
2. MAIDENHEAD UNITED - York Road 4,000
3. BOREHAM WOOD - Meadow Park 4,502
4. SUTTON UNITED - Gander Green Lane 5,013
5. EASTLEIGH - Ten Acres 5,250
6. BROMLEY - Hayes Lane 5,300
7. SOLIHULL MOORS - Damson Park 5,500
8. DOVER ATHLETIC - Crabble Athletic Ground 5,745
9. WOKING - Kingfield Stadium 6,036
10.DAGENHAM & REDBRIDGE - Victoria Road 6,078
11. MACCLESFIELD TOWN - Moss Rose 6,355
12. BARNET - The Hive Stadium 6,418
13. TORQUAY UNITED - Plainmoor 6,500
14. WEYMOUTH - Bob Lucas Stadium 6,600
15. ALDERSHOT TOWN - Recreation Ground 7,200
16. ALTRINCHAM - Moss Lane 7,700
17. HARTLEPOOL UNITED - Victoria Park 7,856
18. KINGS LYNN TOWN - The Walks 8,200
19. YEOVIL TOWN - Huish Park 9,566
20. FC HALIFAX TOWN - The Shay 10,400
21. CHESTERFIELD - Proact Stadium 10,504
22. WREXHAM - Racecourse Ground 10,771
23. STOCKPORT COUNTY - Edgeley Park 10,852
24. NOTTS COUNTY - Meadow Lane 19,588



Exciting but frustrating in equal measure. Some great grounds and potentially great away days/weekends there but it doesn't look like we'll be able to go away sadly.

Kings Lynn must have done some serious work on their ground since I was last there in 2007 to have a capacity of 8,000. I'm not sure if we've played there since but that was the last time I was there anyway.

Also, that Alty stadium holds nearly 8,000? Really? Maybe those are old stills of it.
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Re: Fascinating Facts (...or tedious trivia!)

Postby deadly » Wed Sep 02, 2020 2:15 pm

worruz wrote:
s.k.khanna wrote:Kings Lynn must have done some serious work on their ground since I was last there in 2007 to have a capacity of 8,000. I'm not sure if we've played there since but that was the last time I was there anyway.

Also, that Alty stadium holds nearly 8,000? Really? Maybe those are old stills of it.


More realistic ground capacities are listed on the FootballGroundsGuide:
https://www.footballgroundguide.com/lea ... expand=all
Click on the non-League tab top right to access all the National League clubs.

They still have not got round yet to putting the various promoted / relegated grounds in the correct divisions, but they are all there and list all the facilities, capacities, ground photos, future developments, nearest pubs..
Bromley for instance looks different from our last visit there as it now has had a full length seated stand at he far end recently installed.

Altrincham is listed there as having a 6,085 capacity.

King's Lynn is listed as having a capacity of 8,200..but remember they have been using all their toes & fingers & toes to do the count.. :o :o :o :o
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