Sutton go 6 points clear - They are our template

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Sutton go 6 points clear - They are our template

Postby attic » Tue Mar 16, 2021 10:23 pm

I see they have gone 6 points clear of Hartlepool who have played 3 games more. 8 points ahead of Torquay who have played 1 game more. I also see Maidenhead hammered Torquay 4-1 tonight. Borehamwood held Notts County to a draw.

Three very non league clubs (apparently not paying much more than we were during the first BW season) who are prospering at this level. Just proves you don't have to be a BELT or a megabucks non league side to compete. Yes we know we can't get promoted from this league due to the lack of lease but we should absolutely be planning on staying here for the mid to long term future. Seems Sutton have very much embraced the approach of sheer physicality and pace of which has been their theme for a few seasons now. Are they proper full time or 'hybrid' out of interest?

We're having a good look at this league now. We're so near in some cases (yet so far in others) of being comfortable here. I think at the very least we need to be looking at training 3 times a week next season.
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Re: Sutton go 6 points clear - They are our template

Postby kit man » Wed Mar 17, 2021 8:20 am

Attic, we are on our arse financially which has been well documented.

I've read lots of posts on here about training x amount of times a week or going to a hybrid method.

All very commendable, but who is going to pay for it? We don't even have a permanent training facility.

There is nothing wrong in aspiring to be the very thing you speak of, but people need to be realistic, unless someone comes forward with a substantial amount of investment then it wont be happening any time soon.
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Re: Sutton go 6 points clear - They are our template

Postby attic » Wed Mar 17, 2021 10:03 am

kit man wrote:Attic, we are on our arse financially which has been well documented.

I've read lots of posts on here about training x amount of times a week or going to a hybrid method.

All very commendable, but who is going to pay for it? We don't even have a permanent training facility.

There is nothing wrong in aspiring to be the very thing you speak of, but people need to be realistic, unless someone comes forward with a substantial amount of investment then it wont be happening any time soon.


Cannot argue with any of that. I guess all clubs are hamstrung to some degree but it seems the majority have long term security of tenure. The case of Borehamwood proves fan base isn't everything as at this level and ours will definitely be at the lower end. Will be interesting to see what 'investment' is forthcoming over the next season or two under (hopefully!) normal operating procedures.
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Re: Sutton go 6 points clear - They are our template

Postby BornundertheElmslie » Wed Mar 17, 2021 10:15 am

Interesting insight from Maidstone's owner on the costs of playing in the National League. Whether we like it or not, to stay at this level and be competitive, we have no choice but to try and bring in large scale external funding. Or large scale crowdfunding from supporters and local businesses. You can see why clubs are pushing to get into the EFL, the basic funding from the Premier League for a League 2 club is almost £1m across core club, academy and community.
https://kentishfootball.co.uk/news/maidstoneunited240119

"When you go from National League South to the National League you find the average playing budget for the National League is £500,000 higher than in the South division below; you cannot by law drink alcohol while watching a match, which probably costs us £80,000 in lost revenues ; the travel and accomodation costs are far higher as the league is truly national; to compete you may have to convert to full-time employment contracts and add various layers of playing and non-playing staff to your operation.

“If after all this your club is still standing well I’ve got more bad news for you, you may also have to fund considerable additional stewarding services to segregate matches. That all adds up to a hit of about £800,000.

“All this is in addition to any one-off costs of extending stadia to comply with strict rules on capacity, seating, dressing rooms, floodlighting, etc. After absorbing all these costs you might find you cannot increase your playing budget very much so you then find yourself battling relegation at the bottom of the table, resulting in crowds dwindling and reduction of ancillary revenues, cup income, etc.

“So the National League could be said to be the graveyard of the pyramid. This explains why clubs are so desperate to get out of it and spend obscene amounts of money in owner subsidies to do so.

“Forest Green Rovers were rumoured to be subsidising at £2 million a season while in National League and Ebbsfleet the same amount until recently. My guess is that today many National League clubs are still choosing/having to inject £500K-£1 million per season into their clubs. Leyton Orient’s new owners are rumoured to have already ‘invested’ £10 million since taking over in June 2017 as they try and make the leap into the promised land of the Football League (EFL).

“The bottom line is that annual handouts to clubs from the EFL from commercial and TV surplusses total around £1 million today for League Two clubs while they are less than £100,000 for National League clubs."
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Re: Sutton go 6 points clear - They are our template

Postby BillyByrneFan » Wed Mar 17, 2021 1:39 pm

BornundertheElmslie wrote:Interesting insight from Maidstone's owner on the costs of playing in the National League. Whether we like it or not, to stay at this level and be competitive, we have no choice but to try and bring in large scale external funding. Or large scale crowdfunding from supporters and local businesses. You can see why clubs are pushing to get into the EFL, the basic funding from the Premier League for a League 2 club is almost £1m across core club, academy and community.
https://kentishfootball.co.uk/news/maidstoneunited240119

"When you go from National League South to the National League you find the average playing budget for the National League is £500,000 higher than in the South division below; you cannot by law drink alcohol while watching a match, which probably costs us £80,000 in lost revenues ; the travel and accomodation costs are far higher as the league is truly national; to compete you may have to convert to full-time employment contracts and add various layers of playing and non-playing staff to your operation.

“If after all this your club is still standing well I’ve got more bad news for you, you may also have to fund considerable additional stewarding services to segregate matches. That all adds up to a hit of about £800,000.

“All this is in addition to any one-off costs of extending stadia to comply with strict rules on capacity, seating, dressing rooms, floodlighting, etc. After absorbing all these costs you might find you cannot increase your playing budget very much so you then find yourself battling relegation at the bottom of the table, resulting in crowds dwindling and reduction of ancillary revenues, cup income, etc. Well that's depressing.

“So the National League could be said to be the graveyard of the pyramid. This explains why clubs are so desperate to get out of it and spend obscene amounts of money in owner subsidies to do so.

“Forest Green Rovers were rumoured to be subsidising at £2 million a season while in National League and Ebbsfleet the same amount until recently. My guess is that today many National League clubs are still choosing/having to inject £500K-£1 million per season into their clubs. Leyton Orient’s new owners are rumoured to have already ‘invested’ £10 million since taking over in June 2017 as they try and make the leap into the promised land of the Football League (EFL).

“The bottom line is that annual handouts to clubs from the EFL from commercial and TV surplusses total around £1 million today for League Two clubs while they are less than £100,000 for National League clubs."
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Re: Sutton go 6 points clear - They are our template

Postby Windermere Bore » Wed Mar 17, 2021 2:33 pm

:)
Last edited by Windermere Bore on Sat Mar 20, 2021 3:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Sutton go 6 points clear - They are our template

Postby suttonstone » Thu Mar 18, 2021 11:20 am

Our correspondent from Cumbria (?) makes some good points in his usual concise style.

It does seem quite a different set up in Britain compared with other major footballing countries, with fully national leagues down to level 5. It's as if all the smaller clubs have to ape the huge ones at the top of the food chain. But if that's how it is set up and there are enough people with deep pockets to keep it going so we either play that game or do what Carshalton Athletic did and declare ourselves a community club and find a level that would upset 90% of supporters. It does come down to finding some money if we are to stay in National League. We can't put in a plastic pitch and raise money that way (a la Sutton) due to the length of the lease.

Maybe if League 2 became North and South allowing lower wage bills and perhaps more part time clubs that would make more sense. Games at Southend, Colchester, Orient, Crawley rather than Hartlepool, Barrow etc.

The impetus for changing the way things work would only come if enough clubs find themselves on the brink, but we've seen Macclesfield and Bury go belly up just recently and there's a long list of phoenix clubs from previous seasons that hasn't put most clubs off from spending money that wouldn't make business sense in any other sphere.
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Re: Sutton go 6 points clear - They are our template

Postby Windermere Bore » Fri Mar 19, 2021 2:51 pm

:lol:
Last edited by Windermere Bore on Sat Mar 20, 2021 3:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Sutton go 6 points clear - They are our template

Postby Windermere Bore » Fri Mar 19, 2021 11:57 pm

:roll:
Last edited by Windermere Bore on Sat Mar 20, 2021 3:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Sutton go 6 points clear - They are our template

Postby suttonstone » Sat Mar 20, 2021 9:14 am

I didn't mean to encourage him......
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